Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I have we where there's a by election coming up in I think three or four weeks. I think that's the time frame and we've had candidates from anybody who is a candidate and wants to come on air and have an interview with us. We put the invitations out to all and Neil from the Animal Justice Party. Justice Party has decided to join us. And I ask this to all the people at Neil, why are you running and how did it all start?
[00:00:34] Speaker B: So I mean for me my journey into politics I think started when I used to work for the WA Police back in about 2014 and I went in straight out of school and was very, very green, very naive and that was a massive jump in at the deep end to see a lot of the darker things that happen in society.
So it was an eye opening experience for me and I realised that for me personally being in that sort of role wasn't where I saw that I could make the biggest difference.
So I decided to step out of that before I'd even finished my training and going to politics essentially. So I found a niche with the Animal Justice Party around that same time I'd also learned about some of the mistreatment that goes on in the animal agriculture sector sector and I felt that that's just a massive area of need that needs to be addressed. So the Animal Justice Party was really the, the only party that was dedicated to resolving that particular issue in our society.
So that was just a natural choice for me. And yeah, I've been been with them for, for quite some time now.
[00:01:41] Speaker A: Which leads you to another question.
Animals.
What?
I mean I think we all care. Well start again. Most people have a great feeling towards looking after animals. You seem to me have taken that next step.
What led you with your affinity to animals?
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. I don't think there was any defining moment where I, where I was like yeah, you know what, I'm really gonna go down that path. But I've just always love pets. Obviously I'm a massive cat person and just, you know, cute fluffy animals. It just, just really, really does something for me. And just meeting animals and spending time with them, I really do regard them as people. They're not humans but, but I do believe they have all the qualities of personhood. They think they feel they can dream and you might not know this but there was a recent study that showed that crows and other corvids, they have the problem solving ability of a seven year old human child.
Pigs as well are as intelligent as three year old children.
So it's just. It's when you think about those things and you just watch these animals in nature just doing their thing and you try to understand what's going on behind the eyes.
You just. There's a. There's a resonance there and it just. Yeah, I just love them.
[00:03:07] Speaker A: It's funny, isn't it? Because I'm fascinated a little bit by crows as well. I mean, I'm not so keen. I mean, I understand that they're all about not so kennel magpies, even though I do like them. And I know I've got a great memory, but I don't appreciate being swooped when I. Hey, I ain't done. I haven't done Anthem. Just a magpie.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: Yeah. I almost lost an eye to one once a couple of years ago. I was running through a park and it was during mate. Must have been during mating season and just got swooped by this one. And I didn't realize it at the time and I had a hat on, but the beak kind of pecked me. Right here is swooping from here. I got these massive gashes on the side of my face and if I. If I hadn't turned my head a couple of millimeters, it would have. Would have taken my eye.
So it was. Yeah, it was only reviewing the. The photos of it after, though. I was like, wow, that. That could have been a lot worse.
[00:04:02] Speaker A: Well, crows are pretty cool. I just say.
I like. I like crows. Yeah, yeah. And I already said that they.
So we're digressing. I know that they had a little.
They got nuts and they'd be clever enough to get the nut, put it on the road, wait for a car to run over it and then go back. They actually had the thought, think, oh, no, that'll get crushed by a tire. I'll pick up the remnants here. Quite. Quite clever.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: Super smart. Super smart.
[00:04:30] Speaker A: So what have you in your animal justice party?
Have you achieved much, Neil?
[00:04:39] Speaker B: I'd say so. I mean, I ran in the 2025 state election as well for the Sea of Joondalup. So complete opposite end of the end of the city.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: But Paul Butler ran in that she's representing. Sorry to address.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, yeah, no, that name sounds familiar. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:04:55] Speaker A: So you ran for that and. Sorry, how was the.
Were you happy with the vote?
[00:05:01] Speaker B: I think so. It wasn't as high as some of our other districts. I think up in Mindari, we got roughly 3.5% of the primary vote. Mine down in Joondilup was a little bit lower. I think low 3%, maybe 2.9, something like that. I can't recall.
Not as high as I was hoping for. But, you know, still, still enough we've got targets and we want to sort of show that there's that core of people in the area who care very deeply about the same things that we do.
And to me that's, that's what it's all about. You want to send a message to the, to the government and say, look, you know, if you want people's, you know, second preferences, third preferences and so on, you need to pay attention to these issues that people really care about.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: So do you have a goal that you'd like to achieve in the secret harbour by lecture as regards percentage of the vote or not?
[00:05:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's difficult to put a specific number on it. Ideally I would like 7%. I think that would be fantastic.
4% is a typical target as well, because that's the point at which you get reimbursed with election expenses and things like that. So if you can crack the 4%, that that's got benefits, you know, in and of itself. But if we could go for seven, whether or not we get there, I, you know, maybe, maybe not, but all we can do is try.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: How do you, what's your. Not so much campaign strategy, Neil, but how do you connect with the voters? I mean, are you, do you go out there door knocking or anything like that? Do you have that?
[00:06:35] Speaker B: I mean, it's difficult for us as a minor party because we're completely volunteer run.
We don't have a lot of volunteers to help us do that kind of thing.
But I guess the people we do have are incredibly passionate, so that's a massive asset. And one of the things I'm hoping to do is go around with a team to every letterbox in the district and give them a flyer.
That's our goal. So I think there's 16,170 something homes or dwellings in the, in the area. If we could get a, get a flyer into every letterbox, that would be fantastic. And of course, if anyone wants to contact me, more than welcome, happy to have a chat.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: Yeah, well, usually at the end of the year, towards the end, we sort of say to people, you know, do you have a website or do you have an email address or do you. Which if you have any share them or mobile phone number where they can contact you if they want to take their interest further.
[00:07:33] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: So it's interesting that I think as again a member of the community, I remember I don't know. Interesting in your thoughts on this. To a degree. When I was growing up, we had dogs. Oh. I mean, a dog lover since forever and basically I always had inside dogs and I used to get table scraps and a tin of pal. That was there. That was it. And they. But now I've noticed there's almost a humanizing of pets. Would you. Do you see that? Like they get coats and special diets and this. That. Yeah. And now there's a whole supermarket oil of animal products.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely, I have noticed that. I think there's actually two reasons why that's been a bit of a change. I think, first of all, people are actually feeling a lot more isolated in their communities these days. People don't have what they refer to as a third place. You've got home, you've got work. But you know, when we were living hundreds of years ago, even just a few decades ago, you had more social clubs. You'd go out, meet people, you'd have friends who you'd meet with regularly, if not every day. A lot of people just don't have that now. So I think there's, you know, if you want connection with, with another, with another being people's pets are often the only, the only option available. So I think that's one reason, another. I think people are just, just starting to really adopt a different perspective towards animals. I think we're, as a, as a society in general, I think we're starting to take animal rights more seriously. I think we're starting to recognise the intrinsic value that animals have a lot more than we perhaps have done in the past. And so I think those two together are probably what's driving that change.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: So a personal question, if I may.
Would you be a vegetarian?
[00:09:32] Speaker B: I'm a vegan.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: A vegan. Okay. Which is sort of one step, if you like, because you don't have dairy products at all, correct?
[00:09:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So no. No meat, no dairy, no eggs. And anything that comes from an animal, we avoid leather, wool, all of that.
Yeah.
[00:09:48] Speaker A: Oh, that's interesting, isn't it?
You find that like that lives how long you had that lifestyle for?
[00:09:55] Speaker B: So I, I became a vegetarian back in high school. So that would have been around 2011, 2012.
And from there I found out about the meat industry then and that that was just shocking to me and I, yeah, thought, wow, I had no idea that this is how animals were treated.
So that was, that was enough for me. Straight away. At that point, I had no idea about dairy and eggs, though. So it was only when I met my now ex wife and she was a vegan at the time, she introduced me to that.
Very shortly after that I was like, well, I need to, I need to ditch the rest of it as well. So that was 2016, I believe.
[00:10:30] Speaker A: There are, I think there's a. Well, there's a famous. Well, he's famous, yeah. Famous comedian Ricky Gervais.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: Have you heard of. And he's a staunch, staunch animal lover.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: And he, it's, I think it's good to somebody like him who a lot of people know of and for him to push the calls. He could donate a lot of money as well.
And I think that's great because it helps get your message across, doesn't it?
Would it be harder? I mean people, people will, when they have a dog or a cat, you know, domestic, obviously domestic pets, it's easy to assimilate them, you know, for a human being, you know, dog, cat.
But is it harder to get them to say, are you going to go kfc, eat chicken tonight? To associate a chicken as the same as you would a dog or a cat? For an average person, I think there
[00:11:40] Speaker B: is a bit of a disconnect because these animals who are exploited by these industries, they're out of sight and out of mind. We never see them in day to day lives. So we see our cats and dogs and birds and wildlife all the time, all day, every day.
But these other animals who are deliberately kept hidden from us, we never see. And because we never see them, we can't connect with them. So it's only when we have people who go and retrieve covert footage from these facilities that show the conditions that they're in, the ways they're treated, the way they're neglected, that people can really understand fully and join the dots and go, you know what? There is no difference between these animals and my cat or my dog.
[00:12:19] Speaker A: Yeah. I think that's the thing, isn't it? Would say that is a very important message to get across because I think you're right. Like, you know, people sit down and eat a steak and you know, I enjoy it, but there's no thought process. It's just, I'm enjoying this steak.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:37] Speaker A: Not the poor cow that got slaughtered for it.
And when you think of it, things like that, I think it's really, it hits home as you as a person, when you actually or consciously think of what's happened for that animal to get there, it changes your perspective. Isn't it like, you know, like I'm just chatting Generally, I mean, if people eat lamb, which is basically, I think, only up to two years old.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: Yeah. In most cases.
[00:13:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's quite funny the way that we.
The way that we in our mind justify it. Like, if you say something like, oh, it's a baby snapper, people go, I don't mind, it's snapper, but sometimes you say it's a baby lamb.
Then there's that connotation of, oh, aren't they nice and woolly? And this, that, the other. So it's breaking that. If you like that mental idea, I think, of animals.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I think there definitely is an issue there because animals like fish and chickens and so on, I mean, they're not the typical sort of cute and fluffy animals that we just have a natural affinity for because things like kittens and puppies, I mean, if you think about it, they're very similar to human infants. And of course, we have this natural compassion and altruism towards our own offspring.
And it's not a fast step from there to a kitten or a puppy, but it's a little bit further to say, you know, a baby crocodile, for example.
So just because of the aesthetic difference,
[00:14:08] Speaker A: I think that's what it creates.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: Is it like, if you were to, again, talk about generalizations and correct me if I'm wrong, but people probably would see a rabbit as cute, but they might see a warthog as ugly. So we don't care the warthog's gone, but don't you dare touch that rabbit, you know, and yet it's the same sort of thing, isn't it?
[00:14:34] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: So 100.
How far do you. Would it ever get on? I'd be a bit silly here. Would it ever get down to things like insects?
[00:14:44] Speaker B: I think so. I mean, there's emerging studies on the sentience of animals like that, you know, even ant colonies as a system.
I mean, fundamentally, we still don't know and perhaps will never know the true nature of consciousness. You know, how does it arise? Well, you know, how is it different in humans from animals? How does it vary within animals, for example?
[00:15:07] Speaker A: That's it. I think that's a really important part. Like, we talked before about crows being so intelligent and maybe a cow not being as intelligent. So how do we line them up?
[00:15:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: So would you say. Because we've got a few questions here, if you're happy to. To take them?
[00:15:25] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: I think probably the one and two, always one and number one, which I think, will motorboats be Banned in the state controlled shoal water marine sanctuary to minimise the penguin strikes. There are less than 97 individual penguins on Penguin Island. Do you have a thought process on that?
[00:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean if I've got any say in it, I absolutely would put, I was looking at just the other day, I'll put a roughly 1 1/2 to 2 kilometer exclusion zone around the entire island, obviously with a small transit corridor for boats to pass from north to south between Penguins island and the shore.
But I mean the statistic I saw was that about 30% of the deaths of these penguins are caused by watercraft strikes. So if we can, that's what I've seen.
And if we can eliminate that with a big enough exclusion zone, I mean that in itself, with no other measures taken, would be a massive impact on that.
But I mean obviously Animal Justice Party, we're very big on conservation. We absolutely don't want to see these penguins disappear.
So we want to limit or completely, completely restrict temporarily people visiting that island so that these penguins can sort of recover from the brink of extinction. Because we really don't want that.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: So do you have like there's a lot of things primarily with people, it's cost of living and also high up in a lot of people's agendas is mental health. Do the Animal Justice Party have a thought process on that?
[00:17:09] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I mean we regard humans as animals as well. So we're not exclusively focused on non human animals. We definitely have policies and want to make a difference for humans as well. And mental health and housing, cost of living, it's all part of that. And I think mental health and housing particularly are very tightly interlinked. People are struggling to make ends meet and because of that they experience all kinds of issues from anxiety to depression and everything in between.
Even suicide in a lot of tragic cases.
And if we can fix the circumstances that lead to those mental health issues, then I think that's a massive thing that we can and should be doing.
[00:17:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I was chatting to one of the other candidates yesterday, I think it was.
And I think one of the important things was that, you know, whether it be a hospital system, on the health system which is broke. Ish shall say that a lot of these things that go on, it's the education beforehand, maybe the hospitals and things like that, maybe they're a solution, but you maybe not have to have that so much if you had the education in place earlier.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: Absolutely. Preventative health is a big, big thing. I would love to put more, as you say, Education in place around nutrition, exercise and nutrition, if you've got that right, then a lot of these chronic health conditions that people that are massive killers here in Australia would just not be such a massive issue. If you look at countries over in Asia, for example, where their diets are different, their lifestyles are different, if you look at the biggest sort of factors in mortality in those countries, completely different from over here in the west where our lifestyles and diets are very different.
And obviously plant based living has a fair bit to do with that as well. Studies have consistently shown that a vegan diet, if done properly, if you're ensuring that you're getting all of the right nutrition there, is the healthiest diet and is able to prevent to a large degree a lot of these chronic health conditions.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: And is there a country in the world?
Well, countries in the world which have got a good outlook on animal justice, like, you know, whatever we are in Australia, then you've got, say America and England and Europe and Asia. Do any of them, would you say, have a better.
Yeah, a bit of balance with looking after animals than we do here?
[00:19:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think there's issues everywhere. We're still, I don't think anywhere in the world where we need to be. But I'm very excited by some progress that I've seen in some of the Nordic countries.
It's a while since I last checked on the progress there, but I think very recently they've recognized the sentience of octopuses and perhaps crustaceans or some other animal in that category, which is sort of in comparison to elsewhere in the world. Very, very forward thinking.
So it's that kind of thing that we really want here In Australia, for example, the definition of animals per the Animal Welfare act doesn't even cover fish.
So that's covered under a completely different set of legislation.
So the cruelty offences that people would typically think of, if it happens to a fish or any of these other animals that aren't covered, you know, it's not technically cruelty within the meaning of the law.
So that's a big problem that we need to address here. Other countries, I'm not such an expert on that, but I think they'd be in a slightly better position.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: It's funny. Not ha ha funny. I don't mean, you know, being out there in the, in the world of commercial, I always find it sort of a, sort of bit of a anomaly when, and I'm not knocking them because I think they do a great job, but the rspca, they say, well this this chicken has been killed or whatever you like, you know, and we've approved it. Rac, RSPCA approved. And I think that the fact that you're killing them, is that like a bit of an anomaly, do you think?
[00:21:36] Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I mean a lot of people in the animal rights space do have a massive issue with the, with the RSPCA approval program because it's not properly enforced and the standards that are in place, you know, they're not really that much better than the non approved alternatives. And because we have no sort of independent transparency and accountability over these things, we've got sort of no mandatory CCTV or monitoring of any kind in these facilities.
It's really, you can never be sure how these, how these animals have been treated. And the COVID investigations that have been done over the past decade and more have consistently shown that there is still cruelty that occurs here. So I'm not blaming the RSPCA for that. They're under resourced and want to, I
[00:22:23] Speaker A: think their intentions are really, really good.
But like you say, you know, a lot of organizations, it boils down to power, you know, with a lot of these big companies, you know, and yet they'll probably pick on some small farmer, you know, but don't worry about the big organizations, you know, but anyway, that's just the way it is. So because we're talking about animals and animal justice, like, is somebody like Sir David Attenborough, is he like almost an icon for the Animal justice party?
[00:23:07] Speaker B: I wouldn't say that. I mean, he's definitely been massively influential in sort of raising public awareness about conservation issues and everything. So to that extent, I think so, definitely.
But I think there's a general feeling within the broader animal rights movement that people, as you mentioned, Ricky Gervais is sort of more prominent in promoting sort of the same ideologies that we align with. So I think, you know, conservation issues, absolutely, you know, on board with that and yeah, massive gratitude to David Attenborough for that sort of thing. But I think there are probably other public figures who sort of more closely align with and probably more closely promote the same sort of stances that we take.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: And I also just a question as well as a statement, people like, and I think he is Paul McCartney and his late wife Linda. And there's a lot of high profile artists who are, yeah, high profile, who are vegan and promote your causes. That obviously helps as well because I think everybody's influenced by social media and if they see somebody, if you like, famous promoting your causes, it Must help you guys a lot.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: I think so. I mean, it's not a massive thing that we sort of hear about of people saying, oh, you know, I've joined the party because of this celebrity or something like that. But I think overall, in terms of raising awareness and allowing people to draw that connection, it definitely does help. If the message comes from someone they know and trust or at least are somewhat familiar with.
Yeah, I think it definitely helps.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: Okay, well, it's been fascinating. It will give each candidate who comes in here the same amount of time. It's because otherwise, you know, he got more than us. So we. We sort of cut it off, sort of like after about 30 minutes, which I think we're just about at, and the big boss in the corner is nodding. He should get a job in one of those.
Those parties where they say a statement, there's people in the background nodding.
If there's a final, if you like, comment that you'd like to make to prospective voters out there, Neil, would you like to share it with us?
[00:25:31] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, regardless of who people vote for, I think that the important thing is that we need to be supporting these minor parties and independents. So regardless of whether people vote for us, you know, if you put us first or any other candidate first ahead of the major parties, you know, it sends a strong message that can't be ignored, that, you know, these issues that these parties stand for, they matter.
If you don't do that, your vote is essentially counting for less because you're not sending that message.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: I agree. I agree with you wholeheartedly. So thanks again. Oh, by the way, how many casts do you have?
[00:26:06] Speaker B: None at the moment. I used to have three when I was living in South Australia, but no, sadly, none at the moment.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: Do you find any differences, which is just before you go anywhere, any difference between a cat person and a dog person?
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Oh, cat people are better.
[00:26:23] Speaker A: It gets a nod from the boss when I have cats, you know.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: Yeah, but no, love cats and dogs. All animals are great.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And they just become your best buddies. And they're not judgmental.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: No.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: Well, sometimes cats can be.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: It can be some. Yeah. But no, love. Love cats.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: Great. Well, thanks for coming, Neil, and no worries. Best of luck, the election.
[00:26:43] Speaker B: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
[00:26:45] Speaker A: Cheers.
One more thing before you switch off is how anyone can contact him. Oh, yes, we did mention that. Yes.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: Sorry, yeah, yeah, no, so my. My email address, a bit of a long one.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: Sorry. Can I just get you to ask the question first and then. Okay, yeah, just so we can trim it together. Yep.
[00:27:02] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:27:02] Speaker A: Neil, we did, I did say the start of the show if people want to contact you via email, Instagram or telephone number, if you like. Obviously, you don't have to if you don't want to. So how could I do that?
[00:27:14] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean, easiest way is probably by mobile. So My number is 040373, 9557.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: Just slide again, please, if you would.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: So 040373, 9557.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: And can call or text anytime other than that. My email address is a long one, but it's wa.dearlyconvenernimaljustice party. Org.
[00:27:35] Speaker A: Okay. Thank you very much, Neil.
[00:27:37] Speaker B: My pleasure.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: Cheers.
Awesome.
