Money Mentors

[00:00:01] Speaker A: And that's Miley Cyrus, a rather risque performer, if I may say so. A daughter of Billy Ray, who had achy breaky heart. Now, at the moment, at the moment, as we speak, as I speak, we have Allison. I've got to get it right. Samson. Like that. I was going to say Simpson. [00:00:23] Speaker B: Yes, everybody does. And on the right. It must sound funny on the phone because when you call anybody, they think it's Mrs. Simpson or Mrs. Thompson or. Or Mrs. Pumpson occasionally. That's always fun. Bit weird. [00:00:34] Speaker A: It is. Well, my. I funny enough because my first name's Nick and my surname start with them. And I also get. Always get Mick. No, no, no, no. It's. Anyway, so Allison is. Sorry, we digress. I digress. Alison here from Money Matters. [00:00:48] Speaker B: So give us a little bit of mentors. [00:00:51] Speaker A: What do I say? [00:00:52] Speaker B: Everybody does it. I don't know why we don't just get called Money Matters. Because everybody calls us. [00:00:56] Speaker A: I'm sorry. [00:00:57] Speaker B: It's all right. [00:00:58] Speaker A: She's made my first mistake. I'm sort of not even into the interview, and I made a mistake. Geez. So, Allison from Money Mentors, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do, and the organization you work for? Alison? [00:01:14] Speaker B: So my job title is financial counselor, which I think is one of these weird jobs, and nobody really ever has a clue what I do. So it's very different to financial planning or financial advice that people initially think of. So if you go and see a financial planner or a financial adviser, you. You've usually got quite a bit of money and you need help to, like, buy shares or work out where to invest things or kind of sort out your portfolios. Most of the people that come and see me are kind of struggling and they're in financial difficulty or they might have a lot of money, but just not know how to manage it very well, and so might be wasting quite a lot of it struggling to save, not have any superannuation, and need help kind of managing their money and working out what to do with it. So a lot of our role is what we call advocacy, and I don't really like that word because, again, I don't think people really know what it means, but it just means helping people out with anything to do with their money. So we might be helping them to put plans in place for things. A lot of people have debt, but not necessarily everybody. We might help with utilities bills, putting plans in place, putting payment arrangements into place, all sorts of different things. Just anything to do with anybody that's struggling to manage their money, basically. So I work for a smallish agency we keep, seem to be getting a bit bigger and bit bigger, as you mentioned, money mentors. So a lot of the other financial counseling agencies people may have heard of, people like Anglicare and St Vincent de Paul, which is Vinnies, they all have financial counsellors and then there's some little church agencies dotted around that have financial counsellors. So we're based in Mandurah, we also have an office in Kwana, we also have an office in Byford. So we're kind of, you know, a few different places and we do regional, we go out down to Waruna, down to Pinjera, kind of in the Peel region, do little, little outreach sessions where a financial counsellor will go down there for a day, a month perhaps in a local center to help people down there so they can have face to face appointments. Most appointments are face to face, but we do offer phone and we do offer video. The most important thing being that they are always free. By very definition, financial counseling has to be free. We're not allowed to charge for our service. [00:03:17] Speaker A: Seriously. So if like you mentioned, I understand to a degree. Well, I do understand that people with a lack of money would come to see your. But you're also saying people with a bit of money. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I get lots of people that have worked away in the mines. They've earned a huge amount of money and just don't know how to manage it. So they've either spent it all or they might have gambled it or they might have had a business and lost all the money in the business. So lots of people that come to me and just say I don't know what to do, you know, and so I'll talk to them about their superannuation. We have to be really careful because we're not financial advisors. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:54] Speaker B: So we're not allowed. I'm not allowed to give, I'm not allowed to tell somebody what superannuation provider to go with. But I can say to them, look at, if you've got two different super accounts, look at them both, have a look at what the benefits are of both of them. Choose one and you could potentially put your money into one super plan which would then reduce your fees. And so we would just advise them how to do the research, you know, find out what insurances you've got, what are the benefits of different products. But we absolutely wouldn't tell somebody which one to choose, if you see what I mean. So that's where the, where it Kind of, that's kind of how it's planned out, that you talk to them around the idea and help them to find the information and they make the decision. So that's the advocacy part of it as well, is we only ever do what somebody wants us to do. You have a big discussion about their situation. What's the most pressing issue we usually start with. But then you usually find there's other things behind that we have to work on as well. So [00:04:45] Speaker A: is it difficult? [00:04:47] Speaker B: I wouldn't say it's difficult, I'd say it's absolutely fascinating. It can be really confronting because you hear some stories and I get quite angry sometimes because we live in such a wealthy country with so many opportunities. But I'm, especially with the housing crisis, I'm hearing stories about people that cannot find somewhere to live, that are homeless and living in tents and it disgusts me really, you know, that we've got so much wealth and so much power in this country and it's not really shared. So the actual job's not difficult. I think I started doing this, I've only been doing this job for a year, so I started doing it as an older person. And so I think I've got quite good resilience and I think I'm quite good at self care and I'm quite good at drawing boundaries. I think if I'd done this as a younger person, I might have found it really, really difficult to do as a long career. But I'm already. So hopefully I'm only doing it for 20 years and then I'm retiring, so. [00:05:37] Speaker A: Well, I do remember, Alison, if my memory serves me correctly, that I think you mentioned there, you've only been doing it for a year or so. But I do think, if I remember correctly and you can, I've already made one mistake today. So did you in your earlier life get in a bit of debt? [00:05:55] Speaker B: Yes, yes, I do remember that, yes. So that's definitely what led me to this path. You know, when I was much younger, I had a lot of credit card debt and I had a lot of loans and I didn't really understand about credit products and I did, didn't understand, you know, how a credit card worked. So I got one, maxed it out and then was like, what are these weird charges? Just didn't understand what it was all about, really. And so I can understand why other people get into that situation. And so it's a very much non judgmental service, you know, because I've been there and I know what it's like, and so it's great to be able to explain it to people now and be able to help them out of these situations that they get themselves into. [00:06:29] Speaker A: So it's really hard sometimes to. To phrase a question I find without sounding, I won't say insulting, but it does. You seem like I can understand some people who. I suppose it happens. It doesn't. Some people who have. Have a. Less education. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:54] Speaker A: And you seem educated and yet you. Well, it still went down that path. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:07:00] Speaker A: Is that the, Is that like a new. Do you find a lot of that, that people who are educated still have no idea, not to say no idea, you know? [00:07:08] Speaker B: Well, they just don't necessarily know about that thing. You know, you can't know about everything. So you can be incredibly educated about one thing and not have a clue about the other thing. And that's. That's life, isn't it? You know, and my dad is really good at managing money. My dad has, is, you know, always had shares, always had investments, he's always worked for banks. He didn't share that information with me when I was younger. It's not something we spoke about, really. It's not. It just, it just. And it's like a cultural thing. I don't know, like, we didn't talk to our kids about money. I don't think when we, you know, my parents certainly never did, people don't talk about money. It's still so shrouded in shame and secrecy. And it's a weird kind of way that we culturally deal with money, which I think doesn't help. [00:07:44] Speaker A: So it is true, isn't it? I've got some questions for you. But it's quite true, isn't it? I remember when I was in the workforce that, oh, don't tell that person how much money you're earning. I'm thinking, what difference is it going to make? [00:07:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:57] Speaker A: Like it might be resentment for them, but I think, I don't care if I earned whatever it was, 60, $70,000. I say I earned 60, 70 grand. I think, what are you going to do with that information? [00:08:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that just doesn't help. [00:08:09] Speaker A: And I just think that, like you said, I just think, and I've said this before, before I ask these questions, one of the, the things that I would like to press for is for to forget, say, algebra and learning Mandarin or whatever language. Have somebody like an hour a week at the school explaining bank cards, explaining interest rates so that our kids have some sort of idea rather than, like you said you weren't it wasn't discussed at your home, which happens quite often. But if you get some information from [00:08:46] Speaker B: other people, I think that it, it is in the curriculum a lot these days. [00:08:50] Speaker A: Oh, that's great. [00:08:51] Speaker B: So I've seen some research that's been done where it has been applied in. You know, every single subject now has elements of it that are to do with finances to try and introduce that concept. And schools are inviting people to come in and talk about things like this. But again, I do think that sometimes schools are there for the theory, like the base theory. They're there for the algebra and they're there for the languages because they're the things that parents don't know, you know, and it's, it's parents responsibility. It's our responsibility as a society to educate children on money and finances. And schools can't do everything. Everybody always seems to say, oh, they need to tell this in schools. It's like, well, no, parents need to teach their children, but the parents need to learn in the first place. And people don't, you know, not everybody is interested in it as a subject. At the end of the day, I personally find it really interesting, which is obviously why I went and retrained, you know, in my adulthood to do this as a job. And some people are just not interested in managing their money. It's just not their thing, you know, like. And I have to try and make it interesting. [00:09:44] Speaker A: Well, it's, it's. We could discuss it. It's almost like of so much importance. Like some of the subjects you do like. I understand and I'm not. I understand subjects. Like we'll just say algebra. I understand parents don't know that. So they teach your kids. I just think at the end of the day, money is so important whether we like it or not. Yeah, you know, it's a tough one that. It really, really is because I think it's getting better. I hope so, Alison, really, because, you know, not discussing money, it's. [00:10:23] Speaker B: I try and phrase it toward to my clients of like, you're trying to reduce their stress and anxiety. So, you know, I always explain the same story that when I didn't manage my money very well, I used to be scared going to the atm. I'd put the numbers in and I'd kind of tend, is it going to give me any money? Like, and I never knew because I never knew what was in my bank account because I never looked at. Because I. It was so shrouded in fear and lack of education and lack of understanding and so when I changed that and I educated myself and I got better at this, I found it so much less stressful. And this perceived stress actually didn't exist. You know, just once I looked, it was less stressful just to look in my bank account, know what was there, and it was usually fine, and to go and get the atm, then create this whole drama around not looking. But. [00:11:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it's amazing how when you talk to people that you see another side. I mean, you know, like. [00:11:13] Speaker B: Yeah, but that's easy for me to say when I've got money in my bank account. And. But you've got to understand that lots of people that come and see me, they look in the bank, there's nothing there. That's why they're stressed out, because they're on such a terrible income. And Centrelink payments are disgusting. I mean, the 600 that people get paid or whatever it is 600 for when you're trying to find a job is just absolutely insulting to people, really. Like, no one can live off that cost of living. The cry, you know, the increases in cost of living, and there's no increase to welfare payments. I just, you know, I'm so in awe of how my clients survive sometimes. Some of the people that incomes, they have to survive on. [00:11:48] Speaker A: Yes. Because, you know, like a dollar or two or five may not mean. I won't say anything to you, but, [00:11:57] Speaker B: you know, we're in a very, very, very privileged position. I recognize that every day. [00:12:02] Speaker A: Oh, it's. That's interesting. Yeah, I think so. I mean, you can help people, you know, you don't have to give hundreds. You just a little bit. I think it's great. Anyway, Alison, should we get onto the questions or would you like. [00:12:12] Speaker B: I think we've probably covered some of them already, so we can just. [00:12:15] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:12:16] Speaker B: These are from your listeners. I understand that they send these questions in. So I feel like we have to do the service and answer the questions or we'll get in trouble or never get in trouble. [00:12:24] Speaker A: Well, okay, question number one. It's all like a mastermind, isn't it? I should have, like, who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Which is good for money mentors. Then I can give A, B, C [00:12:38] Speaker B: and D all the money to all my clients. [00:12:41] Speaker A: Okay, first question. Is there a safe way to use credit cards? [00:12:46] Speaker B: So I. As I said before, I have to be really careful with questions like that because I'm not a financial advisor. [00:12:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:52] Speaker B: So I'm absolutely not allowed to talk about credit products, like, in that way. So if a client came to me and said, you know, should I use my credit card? I definitely couldn't answer that question. But I think the reason people are asking that is because there are lots of different ways that you can get points when you use credit cards. So when you use a credit card, once you've got a certain amount of money on the account, you can get points. So I fell into this trap personally. So again, very recently, actually only probably a couple of months ago, I put a stop to it. So I went on my husband's long service leave last year. We went overseas and so we got credit card to make some payments on because we thought it would be good for insurance and it would be good for, you know, you got insurance through the card. And then when we got back, I kind of kept using it, kept using it. And I was like, oh, I'm getting loads of points. This is great. And Christmas last year, I had hundreds of dollars of Woolies and Coles vouchers because we'd use the credit card so much. So more or less my Christmas food shopping, I just used these vouchers. I was like, oh, this is great. And then I just kept using it and using it and then I'd pay it off and then I'd get some money and then I'd pay it off. And then eventually, suddenly there was a thousand dollars on there. And I couldn't shift it because it wasn't food shopping money, it wasn't weekend money. It was just me overspending and it had just got out of control. And I was. I suddenly stopped myself. I was like, hang on a minute. So my money that I've made for Christmas shopping, great. I'm now a thousand dollars in debt. So it just completely depends on the person as to how you manage your money, as to whether you can manage it. Some people love their credit cards. They buy everything on their credit cards and they get all of these extra points, extra insurances, and it works for them personally. For me, it absolutely wouldn't work for me. It got me into debt. So what I've done now is I've transferred my credit card onto a 0% credit card and I've set it up so I'm paying off 50amonth. When it's gone, I'll close it and it's done. So I thought, oh, I've learned so much about managing my money. I can do this now. And like, lo and behold, no, I can't. So you've just got to be very aware of your own money management style, how you do things and what works for you? So for some people, it works for it terribly. Did not work for me. [00:14:53] Speaker A: Would this come into it? This is me asking a question. Is there a safe way to use credit cards? Would setting a limit be a better way? I'm just asking. [00:15:05] Speaker B: I honestly couldn't tell you. [00:15:07] Speaker A: Yep. Okay. No, no, I took like in theory. [00:15:11] Speaker B: In theory, yes. I'm sure if you set a very small limit. But, you know, is the benefit worth it really, you know, to have the stress of constantly having that debt, you have to think about and temptation and [00:15:21] Speaker A: that 20% interest rate. [00:15:22] Speaker B: Depends on the purpose. Yeah, exactly. And you're going to pay for that. You know, you don't pay off every single time. [00:15:26] Speaker A: Somebody, I think I watched a TV show, they said if you had $5,000 owing on your credit card, you'd end up paying $15,000 back. But it'll take you about 10 or 12 years. [00:15:38] Speaker B: The first thing that I tell my clients to do when we're talking about credit cards is we open the statement and we look down the bottom in the little teeny, teeny tiny writing where it says, at the current rate you're paying this off, it's going to take 155, 462 years or whatever it says. It's always a huge amount of time. It's just. Well, it's not that much. Yeah, it's a lifetime. You know, it's a hundred years sometimes. I've seen credit card statements with. At the current bait, it's going to take you 109 years to pay off. [00:16:01] Speaker A: Are you serious? [00:16:02] Speaker B: Yeah, not in my current role, but in my previous role, I'd say, how [00:16:05] Speaker A: can they just, how can they be led? [00:16:07] Speaker B: Because the theory is you don't pay off at the minimum. You're supposed to pay more. So, you know, and people slowly creep up, creep up, increasing their rates increase. That's not how they've started off. They've created, they've have earned that right. By paying it off over a certain amount of time, essentially. [00:16:21] Speaker A: But then, yeah, okay, another question. Oh, this is like a crystal ball one and I. Anyway, how many more rate rises do you think there'll be before we see reductions? [00:16:32] Speaker B: So you mentioned this before. So I did a little bit of research yesterday. I have to put my glasses on now because I can't see. So I have no idea about rate rises. And as I said to you a minute ago, I genuinely don't even really understand inflation and all that kind of stuff. So I googled it. I was like, I'm gonna try and sound a bit educated. So I. Have you tried using ChatGPT yet? [00:16:56] Speaker A: No. [00:16:57] Speaker B: Speak about this before. Do you know what I mean by chatgpt? [00:16:59] Speaker A: No, I do not. [00:17:00] Speaker B: So it's the large language artificial intelligence models that you can use the language models. So previously you could go into Google and you Google a question, you know, how many more rate rises do you think before we see reductions? But now you can put it into ChatGPT and what it will do. GBT, G, P, T, Papa Tango. [00:17:19] Speaker A: Okay. [00:17:20] Speaker B: And what it will do is it will look at all of the different websites in the world and then it will concisely answer you your question in like a paragraph or two. So it doesn't give you a load of links to other places. It gives you an answer. [00:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:35] Speaker B: Now it's. There's huge problems with ChatGPT because it's. It's the Internet. So essentially it can be incredibly racist, it can be incredibly sexist, and it can make things up. So it's not something that you use as a resource point as a definite answer for anything, but it's just a clever and interesting way of looking things up. So I didn't ask it your specific question, but I asked it, you know, what is inflation? And it says when the economy is going really well and people are spending money, the prices of things can start to go up. So that's inflation. The central bank doesn't want things to get out of control and for prices to get too high, so they make it more expensive for people to borrow money by increasing the interest rates. That means that people will spend less and it slows things down a bit, helping to keep the prices of stuff under control. Oh, I knew that happened. I thought I'd put it on silent. The phone's ringing. [00:18:23] Speaker A: Oh, there you go. [00:18:24] Speaker B: Oh, go away, Taryn. It's on silent. How is that even happening? She's clearly not listening because she's calling me. That's one of the other financial counselors from the office calling me when I'm trying to do my appointment, trying to do my radio show. That's hilarious. Sorry, I'm gonna have to try and turn that off in case that happens again. She might be persistent and trying. [00:18:41] Speaker A: Well, at least it proves that radio is live here. This is. [00:18:44] Speaker B: There we go. Hilarious. Go away, Taryn. I've lost my answer now. I sounded like I knew what I was talking about a second ago, didn't I? Anyway, so basically the prices of things go up to stop us spending so much money, but it Kind of seems really counterintuitive when you know you're, everything's getting more expensive and then you're, you're, your interest rate is going up and your loans getting more expensive as well. But I think the idea, and I said to you before, I remember in the 90s seeing these videos of countries where people were. Had wheelbarrows full of money and you said, you don't remember that? [00:19:16] Speaker A: No. [00:19:16] Speaker B: Maybe I don't know how you didn't see that because the money had no value because inflation had got completely out of control. And so essentially what they're trying to do is keep inflation under control so we don't get, you know, everything getting really, really, really expensive. But I don't, personally, I don't really understand it, but I don't know when the next rate rise is going to be. And I'm hoping. Did you just say a minute ago that. [00:19:36] Speaker A: Yeah, it should be 11:30, they said, well, 2:30 Sydney time, 11:30 our time. So allegedly. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Do you watch it really closely, do you? [00:19:46] Speaker A: Not really closely, but did you literally [00:19:48] Speaker B: look it up because I was coming in. [00:19:49] Speaker A: No, no, honestly, I, I know that and I think it's the, don't get me wrong, I think it's the first Tuesday in every month is when the rba, I think, because there hasn't been [00:20:00] Speaker B: one for a little while, that's kind of taken my eye off the ball. [00:20:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Because last month there wasn't one. [00:20:05] Speaker B: It's interesting actually, because where I work in Mandurah, we don't have a huge amount of mortgage stress because a lot of the community in Mandurah is very established and people have had those houses for a long time. [00:20:15] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:16] Speaker B: And whereas somewhere like Rockingham, a bit closer to here, Valdivis, the new estate is people with new mortgages and they're really struggling. And so they have just recently set up a mortgage stress. Like the local Rockingham, just across the road from here is called Scales, the local community, community legal center. They've just set up a mortgage stress outreach center where if you're in mortgage stress, you can specifically go and get some help from there, which is a partnership with Legal Aid and the Consumer Credit Legal Service, who give free legal advice on credit and debt, which I used to work for as well. So, yeah, I personally don't have a huge amount of clients in mortgage stress. Interestingly, that's. [00:20:53] Speaker A: Well, it's not interesting actually. [00:20:54] Speaker B: They just have so many other problems, but not particularly that one. [00:20:57] Speaker A: Okay, so this is an interesting one. I do think There's a lot of food banks out there, which I know there is, but most of them need a concession card. What help is there for people working but being able, unable to make ends meet? [00:21:14] Speaker B: It's interesting that the question came out saying that, because I haven't come across food banks that require concession cards. [00:21:20] Speaker A: That's interesting then. [00:21:21] Speaker B: So I have mostly dealt with the food bank, which is the main food bank. There's one in Mandurah, there's one in the airport, there's mobile ones in Rockingham and in Kwinana, and that's the one with the purple and white lighting food bank. So every Wednesday I do outreach at the food bank in Mandurah. So I go and sit in an office in food bank on Wednesdays and I do walk in financial counseling appointments. So that's partly because you cannot go to food bank and get a food bank card. You have to see an agency. You have to go and get a referral. So if I'm in food bank, I can do food bank referrals for people. They can pop in and see me. I can have a quick chat with them, sign them up. You. There's no, like, strict eligibility criteria. You just have to have a chat with me and demonstrate that you're. You haven't got huge amounts of money. Essentially, you know, with the current cost of living and the increase in cost in groceries, there's lots of working families, there's lots of working people whose mortgages have gone up who can really benefit from some food assistance. So I do lots, more or less. Everybody that comes to see me, I give them a food bank referral card, irrespective of whether they have any kind of concession card or not. [00:22:24] Speaker A: So can you leave me a name? No. [00:22:26] Speaker B: And I think what I say to clients is, you know, food bank doesn't have everything, so it's a good place to start. So you can go and get meat, some pantry staples. They have dog food and nappies. A couple of my clients say that they love the dog food and the nappies because they have big bags of dog food like this, you know, the dry food, it's 20 bucks. And they have nappies, which are much cheaper than the shops because that's such an expense on. On households these days. [00:22:47] Speaker A: Okay, well, that's interesting. Interesting. Would you recommend bankruptcy if there's no other options? Are there downsides to bankruptcy? [00:22:58] Speaker B: Yeah, there is definitely downsides to bankruptcy. There are, there are. That you can potentially have restrictions on travel. I think lots of people just think that people don't know what bankruptcy is. And so they just think it's a magic get out of jail free card and you wave the magic wand and all your debts will go away forever. And it's not actually that simple. You can still be chased for certain debts and then when you're working in the future, you can have your income taken for those debts and that sort of thing. So it's not that simple. So far, I have not had to do bankruptcy for anybody. We've always found another way. There are so many options these days around debt negotiation. I find that banks and creditors are so helpful and understanding. Well, some are, some aren't. And so quite often, you know, if you can put payment plans into place, no matter how tiny they are, you know, just to be paying something off on the debt, you can look at having arrangements put in place where you can have the interest, fees and charges on a credit card frozen and you can make an agreement that you will pay a certain amount a fortnight or a month until the debt is paid off, and you don't have to pay any interest or fees. If you've spoken to a financial counselor, you're in financial difficulty, you need the help, especially the big banks. The big four banks are almost in competition with each other sometimes over who can be the most helpful. If something really tragic has happened to you and you've been in a really awful situation and you've got a huge amount of debt, you can potentially sometimes even have some of those debts waived. And that's a large part of my role is debt negotiation. Going to a creditor and saying, this is the situation this person is in, this is the reason why they can no longer pay this debt, and appealing to them to help me come up with an arrangement. So all sorts of different types of arrangements. Sometimes small amounts paid, sometimes small amounts waived, sometimes the whole amount waived. And it's just very, very different, depending on the creditor and the person's circumstances, or sometimes putting a pause on payments for six months. So I had someone come and see me the other day who's pregnant, so she can't work. So we've just put a pause on payments until after the baby's born and then she'll go back to work and she'll be able, you know, not straight after the baby's born, not the second, obviously, but, you know, know you can't help something like that happening. And she did have a lot of savings, but unfortunately a family member had died and all of the money got spent going to visit the family member and, you know, unforeseen things happen even when you've got plans in place. So I find, you know, you can get all. You know, generally you seem to get better outcomes than having to immediately go bankruptcy. But it depends on the person and their circumstances. [00:25:13] Speaker A: Just to expand on that question you mentioned. So if somebody comes to you and they're in, and you say you can get the payments suspended or frozen for six months. [00:25:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:28] Speaker A: Does the interest accrue? [00:25:29] Speaker B: It depends. So I would never say to somebody I can get that. What I would say to them is I can. We can ask the bank, you know, for this as an option. So I'd never guarantee anything. Okay. So I say to them, you've explained this situation to me. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to go to the bank and see what they can offer us, you know, and it's like a negotiation, essentially. So you sort of start off. Sometimes you'll just want a pause on payments because you know they're going to be able to get back to work. Sometimes you want it waived because something so awful's happened, you know, that they're not going to be able to pay it back. And it would be a huge relief to them to have that debt waived. Sometimes, you know, that the bank, you know, the creditor, so, you know, some of them are more flexible than others. So cash converters, for example, you know, generally are not the most flexible, you know, and they generally will expect you to pay back some of the debt. It's very rare that I would get a cash converter's debt waived. And so I wouldn't have, you know, I did, to be fair, I did once recently. And so I would probably always ask to start with, but I would expect them to say no and then expect to negotiate on payments. [00:26:26] Speaker A: Wow. There you go. How can financial counselors help the cost [00:26:33] Speaker B: of living in so many ways? And this is the thing. This is the thing that I love the most about my job is people come and see me. And I think they're not really expecting anything because they don't really know what I do. And someone's told them to come and see me, and so they're kind of there, but they don't really know what's going to happen. And there's so many different ways that I can help. So Food bank referrals is number one. There's a new program called the Household Energy Efficiency Scheme. So the acronym is He's. I think they're changing the name, actually. Adam's going to kill me because I can't remember what the new name is. So we have just hired two new members of staff that have just joined our team, Adam and Freya, who work down in the Peel region and in the Byford area, and they will help with energy cost costs. So what they do is they come to your house and they help you to do. Well, they do an energy audit on your house and it's like an education program as well. So they come in that we have, they have a chat about all the different appliances in the house, what time do you have things on, what do you use, what happens with your children and your family members, and then they just educate you on the things that are the most energy burning and things that are costing you the most amount of money to help families and households to learn how to lower their energy bills and they have access to funding. So if you've got a really, really, really old fridge or freezer that burning all your electricity, they potentially can get that replaced for you for free. [00:27:52] Speaker A: These are amazing things. [00:27:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I know, I knew be surprised by that. It's great, isn't it? But they'll also, you know, in the winter they've got what they called heated blankets. In the summer, they've got fans, you know, and it's. You don't necessarily have to be on a really, really low income. It's for anybody, you know, anybody that's feeling like their energy usage is not, you know, not under their control and they just need a little bit of help. So, yeah, we'll refer people to he. So people can refer themselves to he's. They can go onto the Financial Wellbeing Collective's website and they can do a referral through there, or they can call money mentors and ask us to do a referral for you. There's the HUGS program, which I think we mentioned last time, which is a household utilities grant scheme. It's all the acronyms and that's for. Is that me ringing? Are you ringing enough? Something. You ringing now? [00:28:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:39] Speaker B: You didn't turn yours off either. Excuse me? [00:28:42] Speaker A: Me. [00:28:43] Speaker B: And that's when, if you're. If you've got a high electricity bill or any. Actually for hugs, it's any utilities, it could be gas as well, and you're struggling to pay your payments, you can go on to a payment arrangement and then after you've been on your payment arrangement for three months, you're potentially eligible to have up to $480 taken off your bill, whichever utilities bill you're struggling with. So that's another program that we got access to. There's a really amazing program called Saver plus which is for people with children and that is to help you learn how to save money. So it's a 10 month online course that you sign up to. You know, in Covid, everyone started doing online courses and it was all zoom and everyone got a bit better at that. So I think people are a bit more comfortable with that idea these days. And you log in, I think it must be once a month or something like that. And you do an online education program to teach you, you know, all sorts of different things about managing your money. But the interesting thing about that program is that it encourages you. You open an Anz bank account because it's, it's funded and run through Anz, but it's very much not branded as that's very kind of, you know, on the down low, that part of it. And if you can save $500 over the 10 months, they will match the $500 and give you it for free. But you have to spend that 500 on things for your children for school. [00:29:59] Speaker A: That is brilliant. [00:30:00] Speaker B: I know, it's amazing, isn't it? So you can get devices, you can get uniforms, you can pay for excursions. And so I really, every parent I talk to that has children, I really, really encourage them to sign up at the beginning of the year. Whatever money you can put in. If you can get to the 500 at the end of the 10 months, they will give you 500. But then you've got a thousand dollars because you've got your 500 back that you've saved. [00:30:21] Speaker A: So most people can do that. [00:30:23] Speaker B: Or I'm, I'm assuming that there's some sort of. Yeah, I'm assuming that there will be some sort of, you know, it's not appropriate if you've got loads of money to do stuff like. I think I'm assuming it's people that are online. [00:30:33] Speaker A: Obviously that's very interesting. [00:30:36] Speaker B: I know there's just so many. And this is the thing, I meet people and I tend to get really over excited and I have to kind of calm myself down because I'm like, you can do this and then you can do this and then we can do this. [00:30:45] Speaker A: But you do, if you're passionate about your job and what you do. [00:30:47] Speaker B: I have to kind of calm down a little bit though because I can scare people. [00:30:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:52] Speaker B: Try and give them, you know, a few ideas and guide them through because not everybody's like me. Not everybody's a. Has the ability to do 15 things at once. You know, people are very overwhelmed and so it's very much approached in a gentle way. You know, we have a chat and we talk about the plans and it's. The idea is not that you just meet somebody once and give them 50 million things to go and do by themselves. The idea is that you meet them over a period of time, depending on their needs. So some of the things I would do for them, some of the things they would do and then we'd kind of meet in the middle. So it's a very gentle approach. [00:31:21] Speaker A: You know, it's very educational. We'll say that. Do you have small businesses? Are there many low interest loans a small business can access? [00:31:32] Speaker B: I don't know about the loans part of it. Again, not financial advice. However, we have a specialized small business financial counselor, she's called Kelly. So she works in the same office as I do down in Mandurah, but again can do phone appointments, video appointments, covers the peel area. And she's a specialist small business manager counselor. So she will help people to link into the different services that are available out there for her. [00:31:55] Speaker A: So in other words, it's another plus. I'll tell you what you got. You're ticking all the boxes here, Alison. [00:31:59] Speaker B: All the things. [00:32:01] Speaker A: This is the last, last one I have for you. I want to teach my child good saving skills. Are there apps and I think we touched on this or programs you'd recommend? [00:32:10] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So the thing that really, really helped me on my financial journey is this man here. So I don't know if anyone can see it on the camera. So this is Scott Pape, the barefoot investor? [00:32:20] Speaker A: Yes, have you heard of him? Well, yeah, my daughter swears by him. [00:32:24] Speaker B: Brilliant. So this book changed my life because I was working at the Consumer Credit Legal Service and I was doing marketing, social media, grant applications, that sort of stuff. But I was working with the lawyers who were helping people that were having financial difficulty. And I started hearing all these stories of lots of people in lots of debt, you know, got themselves into legal problems. And around about that time this book came out and I thought I really need to educate myself a bit better on this stuff because I actually don't really know that much about it and that could potentially, I could potentially get into legal problems. And I thought I don't really want that to happen to me. And so I started reading, writing his book. It wasn't this book, it was the original. So this is the families one. So I brought it with me because you'd put that question. So Scott Pape wrote a book called the Barefoot Investor, that's all about how to manage your money. And the reason that I liked it so much is it was really, really simple. So his entire theory on how to manage your money, he said, should be written on the back of a serviette. That simple, just a little piece of paper. And it basically says, you know, you've got your bills here and then you need to put money aside for saving and you need to decide how you're going to do that and have a plan, man. It's more or less in the simplest term what it comes down to. And it was really popular, so it's the most popular non fiction book in Australia ever. And he's called the Barefoot Investor because it's, you know, he's an oka Aussie guy, he's got a farm in New South Wales. He doesn't really do publicity, it doesn't really do media. He just wrote his book and then just kind of wants to get on with his life. It is very heteronormative. So it's very much. The book says sit down with your wife on a Tuesday night and talk about insurance, which I completely ignored. And I just did all of it by myself because my husband had no interest whatsoever in sitting and talking to me about finances because it's not his bag. So I acknowledge the Barefoot Investor is not for everybody. And I recently went out and did an education session for Wansley, you know, the foster care. So it's specifically for their kids that are leaving care. And I went and did a presentation to those guys and so I made this little resource for them and it was much more kind of younger, female focused education places that you can go and learn. These are probably not for kids because these are a little bit older. So there's Melissa Brown, who's written Budgets Don't Work and one with a rude swear word in the title which I won't read on Radio Un something your finances and it's a naughty word. There's a girl called Victoria Devane, she got a podcast called Cheese on the Money and she's written a few different books. The main book's called Cheese on the Money. That's quite a modern approach to it. And then there's the Australian finance podcast through Rask. So that's a man and a woman that run that one. They've got lots of resources and so, yeah, there's a lot. There's so many materials out there. The interesting thing about this book that the Barefoot Investor Wrote about children. I've lost the page now because I had to move my phone because Taryn called me and he has the barefoot 10 and he says these are the 10 things that you need to teach your kids about how to manage their money. So the barefoot 10 is on page 60. Let's. And I thought this was again really clever, really, really simple, very approachable, that anybody can understand it. You know, it's, you don't have to be like super, super smart. So the barefoot 10, number one, open a zero fee, high interest savings account. So that's what all he reckons all parents should get their kids to do, teach them how to open a savings account. Number two, buy and sell something secondhand. So he's very much talks about, you know, how always think about what can you get the secondhand version of something. You know, it's like the same as when you buy a car. As soon as you buy a brand new car, cost you a fortune. The secondhand version usually a third cheaper. It's the same as everything you know these days. Gumtree Marketplace, Facebook. There's so many different ways you can get things cheaper. And always thinking about how you can get a cheaper version. Learn to cook at least two low cost, delicious, nutritious meals from scratch. So he reckons it's really important to teach kids how to cook, not get into habits with like Uber eats and buying takeout. You know, there's so many different options these days for going to do that sort of stuff, volunteering in their local community. So he is really big on, you know, if you are in a privileged position, giving back, I should just leave these classes on, shouldn't I? Save on your household bills. So he's got a whole chapter in here all about turning off the lights, you know, saving electricity and that links to the he's program, I think maybe getting some help to do that. Promise to never ever get a credit card is number six. So that tells you what his opinions are on credit cards. Number seven, get a part time job from age 15. So there's a big part in here all about, you know, earning extra money. Number eight, earn at least one glowing reference from a boss. So that's obviously just about, you know, getting paid more. So there's a big section in here and in the other book all about if you're trying to increase your income, can you approach your boss for a raise? You know, how can you do your job better? How can you achieve more at work and then go to your boss and say, can you pay me more Money that's impossible for me to do because I work for a charity, I work for a not for profit and our income is set through, you know, the government and stuff like that. So it's not appropriate for everybody. Opened an ultra low cost, high growth super fund. So he talks a lot about superannuation and choosing the right super fund, making sure you're not paying high fees on your super fund and set up a savings account for a home deposit. So the book is very much focused on saving for your first home and he sees that as a really good financial investment. That's not necessarily the right thing for everybody these days, you know, with the high cost of housing, but there's also no rentals either. So, you know, where are you supposed to live? So yeah, I mean there's so many different resources out there that you can help educate, educate your children. I personally bought my kids spriggy cards, which are little kids credit cards basically. I wouldn't necessarily recommend them because they cost 65 for the year, which is really, really expensive. But because my family and I are really into all this stuff and we're always talking about it, we're interested in it and because of my job, I kind of wanted to get the kids excited about it. And my daughters has got Disney princesses on the front of her credit card and my son got to choose his as well and he chose Baby Yoda. So you go on the website, you get to choose what, what you want it to look like and I put their pocket money in there. So I find that a lot of the Barefoot Investor family book is all about having cash for your kids and giving them pocket money. I never have cash. I don't even bank with a bank that's anywhere around here. I do have, I have online banking. And so for me to pay my kids pocket money, I needed to have the capacity to send them it online. And sometimes now if I need stuff from the shops, I give my kids my kid his credit card. I say, can you just pop to iga, I'll put some money on your card. And so it works really well for me. And my. It's not necessarily something that I'm recommending other people to do. [00:38:38] Speaker A: Well, I tell you, the time has flown as it always does with me with Alison. [00:38:44] Speaker B: This is because I never stopped talking. [00:38:47] Speaker A: You see, I was going to say before and you know, the, the brilliance is brilliant. So thing is, you have difference of opinion with people, but it doesn't, you don't have to take it personally. And like when you said Oh, I go off with these people at 100 miles an hour and suggesting all these things. I think, yeah, you can say that's overkill. You can say that for me. I would like that in that when I come to see you, it's not, oh, you're here, are you? Well, you could do this. [00:39:18] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it depends on the person. I completely tailor my meetings depending on the person and their, and their capacity. [00:39:24] Speaker A: Capacity. [00:39:24] Speaker B: And people often say to me that they love my enthusiasm and they, they. I always, I generally get high. A hug. You know, I generally get a hug and people always seem to leave happy. But I'm just very conscious that, you know, sometimes it, it, you know, it's great. [00:39:37] Speaker A: Well, Allison, I hope you can come back here again. I, I do love chatting to you about these things because. And the thing is that I know you've mentioned about. Oh, if I said five, I'd be wrong. Probably more than that of institutions like hugs. You mentioned the he's or Hayes or something. You mentioned that credit. Maybe the credit card for your children. Think that. [00:40:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not recommending that. [00:40:09] Speaker A: So many things. Yeah, that food bank, how to get food bank. They can see you there. You have this. There was that one about the bank account. 500 and they'll match it. [00:40:22] Speaker B: Save a plus. [00:40:23] Speaker A: See, these are things that they're only. I'd say about five things, which, as I say, if people out there, even though pick up one of them, even if they're on the bones of the backside and go, oh, yeah, but I can probably put, you know, X amount of dollars away in this account and it'll be doubled. [00:40:41] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, so I mean, I think saving is the most important thing that you can do because the. We all have expenses that come up, up every year. So everyone's got to put tires on their car every couple of years. Everyone's got to pay their rego every three months. These are regular things that you have to pay that you can't necessarily pay fortnightly. You can't pay your Reggio fortnightly at the moment. I think you can pay it maybe monthly now, but it's considerably more expensive. And so, you know, paying it six months, paying it a year, it's so much cheaper. And so I try and say to people, at least just put your rego money aside so when that bill comes up, you've got the money. But most people just are not able to do that with the current cost of living. [00:41:15] Speaker A: Well, that's the other thing, you know, [00:41:16] Speaker B: and you've just got to be realistic. So it's often referring people to bill paying services. So down in Mandurah you can go to St. Vincent de Paul and sometimes you can get your rego paid for you. But you have to jump through so many hoops and it's so difficult and you really have to have capacity to do that. And lots of my clients are very overwhelmed and stressed out and the last thing they can be doing is constantly calling a certain number to get a bill paid. And that's what makes me cross that there's so little emergency relief, there's so little help when somebody is in crisis. This. So I had somebody recently who had left her husband. She waited months for Centerlink to get through and pay her and she literally had no money, couldn't feed her children. It, you know, it's just absolutely disgusting. Some of the things that you hear, some of the stories you hear. [00:41:57] Speaker A: And that's, that's the sad thing about society, isn't it like one size fits all. [00:42:02] Speaker B: Yeah. We might get so much wealth, you know. [00:42:04] Speaker A: Yep. [00:42:05] Speaker B: So we haven't spoken about how to book a financial counselor. So the National Debt Helpline, I always have to look this up because money mentors, we have our own office and we have a central number that you can call which is still the known by heart. 958-112-81. That's 958-112-81. So that's the money mentors number. If you call that, you will speak to one of our amazing volunteers on the phone who will book you into either Byford or Mandurah or Quinana or for a phone appointment or for a video appointment. Or if you're not in those areas, you can call the National Debt Helpline, which is the main phone number that you call for financial counseling across the whole country. And that's 1, 800, 007 007. That's 1, 800007 007. And you'll speak to somebody on the phone there and then they'll find you your local financial counselor and they'll book you in to the most, you know, soonest appointment that you can get. And I do say to clients as well, if on the day, you know, you're feeling really overwhelmed and you just can't face it, I would always encourage you just call in and just say, can I change it to a phone appointment? Can we just have a chat? You don't have to do everything that day. You just have to start the process. And anybody that is maybe listening that is seeing a financial counselor. You know, please stay in touch with us. We have so many clients that we're helping. It can be difficult sometimes to get back to people all the time. And so I really encourage people to, for it to be a mutually beneficial relationship. Call us, email us, stay in touch with us, ask us what's going on with your case, you know, be engaged in the process. Don't just kind of leave us, us to do it all by ourselves. We have so many people we're dealing with. It can be really difficult to keep track of everybody sometimes. And you do build relationships with people that you see regularly and so you take that opportunity to build that relationship with your counsellor and you know, make sure there's a two way street and make sure you're doing the things that you've agreed that you're going to do. Make our lives a bit easier. [00:43:54] Speaker A: Well, that's it. It's got a, it's a bit like a tennis match. It's no fun if they don't hit the ball back over the net. But Alison, thanks again. As I say, it's been great as always, very educational, you know, very bright young lady. So thank you very much. Just coming in, spending your time. [00:44:11] Speaker B: My pleasure. [00:44:12] Speaker A: And as I say, if it helps, as long as it helps somebody, which I'm sure it will, then it's a plus, isn't it? So thanks again. Thank you. [00:44:23] Speaker B: Bye.