Rockingham Web Services - Allie

[00:00:01] Speaker A: In the radio when there was no such thing as the Internet or I think television. Not only I think television. Anyway, I digress. Look, I've been spoiled this morning. Not only do I have a lovely tuya in the studio, I also have Ali from. [00:00:18] Speaker B: From Rockingham Web services. From Rockingham and Rockingham? Yes. [00:00:24] Speaker A: Rockingham and Rockingham. It's like a. One of those. It's like, wagga wagga. It's Rockingham. Rockingham rocks. [00:00:33] Speaker C: Rockingham rocks. [00:00:34] Speaker B: I never know what to answer when people say, where are you from? Cause it's like, am I? I'm from chinese descent. Technically, I'm from Sydney. I moved to Rockingham, but now I'm from Rockingham. But also they're like, people don't know what Rockingham is. So sometimes I say, I'm from Perth. [00:00:49] Speaker C: Yeah, of course. [00:00:52] Speaker B: And they're like, oh, are they asking which company I'm from as well? It's like, it's a. It's a struggle. [00:00:57] Speaker A: So what? So what do you do? I mean, that's. We got to you here, and there's two you, me, and there's also Ali. So we want to ask you questions. Aren't we to you? [00:01:07] Speaker C: Yes, if I can think of some. But I could totally relate to what you said. When people say, where are you from? [00:01:13] Speaker B: This is such a broad question. Yeah. [00:01:15] Speaker C: Wow. [00:01:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:16] Speaker C: But interesting to know that you're of chinese descent, because when you came in and said, alessandra, I wondered where you were from. [00:01:23] Speaker B: You're like, hang on, that's an italian name. [00:01:27] Speaker C: I wasn't sure if it was italian or spanish. [00:01:29] Speaker B: Spanish people, sometimes I'm kind of what they call a banana. So they're white on the inside and yellow on the outside. [00:01:40] Speaker C: I love it. I've just learned something new today. That's so cool. [00:01:45] Speaker A: Oh, that's gonna stick with me, that one. [00:01:49] Speaker C: Sweet as well. [00:01:54] Speaker B: Tasty and goofy. [00:01:59] Speaker A: Well, you're feeling well because we're all bent here. [00:02:06] Speaker C: Yeah. So tell me a bit about Rockingham web design. [00:02:10] Speaker B: So I only started it, I think, march. And, yeah, we make a bit different to other people. So if there's, like, wix, WordPress, there's, like, lots of different ways to make a website. Ours is 100% coded because, well, I love coding. It's so fun. Yeah. So it's good. It's good. And eventually we'll become. We want to go into software and apps as well, because I've realized there's not that many software developers going to like business networking meetups. And I was like, oh, damn. Okay, let's go. But, no, it's good. It's good. [00:02:46] Speaker C: That sounds amazing. So when you say it's coded, that means it's like 100% original. [00:02:52] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:53] Speaker C: I don't know much about this. I'm on a steep learning curve here. [00:02:56] Speaker B: So, for example, if you go to a website builder and you're like, oh, I kind of want a website, they'll say hosting for like $25 a month, or these other things. The true cost of hosting a website on the Internet is you can buy a domain for $2 and just code it up yourself, and then you have a website up for $2 a year if you have the skill. So, yeah. Or you buy maybe more expensive domain for like $16. But if the domain's more than $16, it's either someone else bought it and you have to buy it off them or they're taking a cut. Yeah. [00:03:28] Speaker C: So if I was to start a wee business or something or wanted to promote myself or my stuff, I would come to you and you could make a website for me. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So I think generally the kind of people who come get a website from us is as they care about their credibility. So a bit of, you know, reputation's been important to them maybe a little bit. And then the other thing is they want to get leads so that people, sometimes they look it up on Google and you know, the first thing that comes up, it's like, I'll go get that one. And generally where the people who come, people come to, it's like they tried website builders, they went to an offshore developer, and I've seen some very interesting offshore developed websites, and then they're like, nope, no good. No good. And then they come to a professional. Awesome. [00:04:16] Speaker A: So, um, you're, uh. Oh, God. I don't. I don't mean to be ageist here, but. No, no, truly. [00:04:24] Speaker B: Do it. I'll get it every day. [00:04:27] Speaker A: You seem very young and very switched on. And maybe, I'm just guessing, a lot of people your age with that sort of ability would be sucked into a bigger company. Why did you decide to do it yourself? [00:04:42] Speaker B: So I was. I was actually in a big company. I was. I used to work for BAE Systems, actually, you know, that defense industry contractor. So I'm 24, so I'm still. I am kind of. I'm still a baby. But the problem. Problem is I kept getting into trouble. Was a bit of a troublemaker. [00:04:59] Speaker A: Why is that? [00:05:00] Speaker B: Ah, because I. I like, I like saying what I think. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Isn't it great? [00:05:06] Speaker C: I love this woman. Already. [00:05:09] Speaker B: So, yeah, I, um. I think I. So I used to be in the Royal Australian Navy, and I really. I did not have a good time. So then I. Then I left, and then I went to. I was a weapons electrical engineering officer. Then I left, and then I joined BAE Systems. But I still, like, was reeling about how much I hated the navy, so I wrote this massive social media post about how much I hated it. It's not safe for women. It's toxic. And all this. And then it got, like, 20k views online, and then my employer found it, and they were like, yo, the government's. The Navy pays us a lot of money. You can't go, like, talking like that. Basic is kind of the vibe. And I was like, oh. And then I had some HR meetings scheduled, and I was like, I don't want to deal with this. So I quit. [00:05:54] Speaker A: Isn't it amazing? [00:05:55] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm so. I'm so inspired. [00:05:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, me too. [00:06:01] Speaker C: No, someone with integrity and compassion and heart and I. Honesty. Wow. The new generation. [00:06:11] Speaker A: Yes. [00:06:11] Speaker C: That's brilliant. Oh, you give me hope. [00:06:14] Speaker B: No, that's not the reaction. Identity. [00:06:16] Speaker A: No, I think it's, you know, being a. Not about me, but I've met so many people interviewing here, and I've learned so much. And, like, people like yourself and also tuya. You are so inspiring. [00:06:32] Speaker B: Oh, no, don't say that. I, like, I gave one week's notice, and I left my job, and then I just started a company. [00:06:39] Speaker C: That is just the coolest thing ever. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Isn't it great? [00:06:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:44] Speaker A: You know, you must. You know, you must have great. And it is. I think so many people are very, very clever and sharp like you are, but they. A lot of them lack self belief and self esteem. You seem full of self belief and also self esteem. [00:07:05] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think the navy kind of does that to you because you're on a ship, everyone's stressed and angry and, well, not. And it's like, I was told they were like, oh, you're too friendly and bubbly. It's not professional, but it's kind of like. And then you see these people outside of work, and you're like, oh, my God. People get. Yell at you, get mad at you, like, every day. Like, you get constantly criticized. And then you kind of realize you're like, oh, wait, it's not me. It's like this environment is also making these other people kind of be these, like, what I would say, not. Not very nice people. Just, it was the environment, and it's kind of the situation. And when I came to that realization of, like, oh, wait. So when people getting mad at me, it's actually. It's not me, it's. These people haven't slept much. They also have people getting mad at them. And then when I think I realized that, I was like. It was like a light bulb moment of like, damn, I can't control any of this. Yeah. [00:08:02] Speaker C: And you thought, is that when you thought you want to get out, or was it only after you got in trouble that you wanted to leave? [00:08:09] Speaker B: Oh, wait, with the navy? [00:08:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:10] Speaker B: Oh, no. I got a little, you know, I got some PTSD. Got, like, sexually harassed by an engineering course instructor. Like, it was very. It was not great. Like, I had a very bad time. And then when I was on the ship, I was, like, very micromanaged and constantly criticized, and I did feel really, really bad about myself, you know, depression and all that. So. Yeah, like, it was. There was a lot of things that led me to kind of leaving, but I think the thing that really was the tipping point was I had this, like, they call it a training review board. So you sit and you have. Because my training had been delayed because I fainted from overwork, and so I couldn't be posted to a ship. Yeah. So they had this training reboard to be like, okay, what do we do with your training? You know, you're posted to a ship, you're medically downgraded. And then I said, oh, I'd like to work from home. And kind of, you know, and I had these things I wanted to learn about, like, because now I'm like, damn, I need to learn more about people and how to handle these, like, stresses and stuff. And then the conversation kept going on and on. But then at some point, this commander said, so you can't work from home because it says here from your psychologist you've recently had suicidal ideation. And I was like, what? I can't work from home because of this silly reason? And that was. And I think the worst bit was, like, I had only told the psychologist that, and I hadn't told anyone else. And then it's getting brought up in this meeting with. By these people. I don't know. And I was like, why would. I didn't realize psychologists could just tell command, like, everything that I'm telling them. And I didn't realize it was such, like, that privacy. It must be different in the navy, like, different policies or something. So that was when I was like, absolutely. I feel like my trust has been broken. I can't believe this is, like, the silliest reason I've heard in my life. And I was like, I'm quit. I quit. So that's, that was the tipping point. It's, and it's like, I don't think, I think the way the navy is, is like, it's very skewed. Like, it's very, like, it's like a different world because you're so constantly, it's like its own little culture and you forget what it's like to be a normal person because everyone else is like it and there's all these toxic things happens and it just seems so normal. Like, I think they saw that and they're like, wait, I'm a commander. [00:10:33] Speaker C: Like, yeah, must be so wonderful to be out of there. [00:10:38] Speaker B: Must be freeing. [00:10:40] Speaker C: And now to have your own business and to be your own boss. [00:10:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And I choose who I work with. So engineering is very male dominated. And I, you know, have had a few people kind of wanting to work with me and they send me LinkedIn messages and I generally ignore them unless they're a woman. [00:10:59] Speaker C: Sorry, I laughed too hard at that one. [00:11:06] Speaker A: So you've been, so how did you, how did you start it all up? Like you came from Sydney? Okay, first question, why Perth? [00:11:14] Speaker B: So I actually was dating a guy in the Navy who broke up with me like three weeks ago. But anyways, I came for him, but also I needed a fresh start. Cause like, you know, it wasn't good. But yeah, I came to Perth and then how I started all of it was so I used to work as a data modeler and the average age of the office is about like 40, 49, so they're not very good at technology. And then I automated some of the, like, I had to do this thing where I updated the database and that was like kind of. You came like the whole day for that kind of thing? Well, I automated it, so it just took like ten minutes and then I just like click play and it just kind of. Yeah. And then I spent the rest of the day kind of on my phone saying how to start a business. Yeah. So that's what I did in my free time, you know, which I had a lot at work because I didn't want to go and ask for more work. So, yeah, I just take this thing that generally takes a day and then I just automated. Love it. [00:12:14] Speaker C: So cool. [00:12:15] Speaker A: So do you for your business a, we need to give you a plug, of course. [00:12:22] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:12:24] Speaker A: But how have you. Do you sort of limit it to Rockingham or you just at your base? Do you attack RockingHam businesses or you sort of go to everywhere. [00:12:36] Speaker B: So I've tried different things. I tried, you know, walking into stores and seeing if they won on one. I tried Cold Calling. I haven't had any Success from that, but I found this thing called bArk.com Comma, which is where you find professionals and services. And I, like, basically pay $100 for leads. So, like, for example, someone's like, I want a website. I want to get a quote, and then I can see their phone number, and then it's, like, to be able to see their phone number. I pay $100, and then I can call them. And I found that to be, like, pretty good. So I started my website up, and then I put it on that Reddit post, which made Lots of People clicked it. So it ranked on Google really fast, so it was good. And then two days after that, I got this thing from Buck being like, hey, do you want a free lead? I was like, what is this? And it was this landscaper who, like, lives in the area. I was like, okay. And then I called him, and then, boom, I sold the website two days after starting, and I was like, this can work. [00:13:28] Speaker C: This can work. [00:13:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think I've sold, like, since starting maybe six or seven, which is, like, I think it's pretty good, you know, considering, like, how do I put it? Well, I only started three months ago. I did, you know, spend three weeks kind of going to Sydney and then Japan to, like, network. And then I had, like, a mental health holiday last week. After the breakup, we went to Japan for four days. [00:13:52] Speaker C: Nice. [00:13:53] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think it's pretty good, considering, like, I haven't been working the whole time. Yeah. [00:14:00] Speaker A: So where do you. Where do you not. Where do you see yourself in five years? That's too cliche, isn't it? Where do you hope the business goes? [00:14:08] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Oh, I'm glad you asked me this question. So I would show you this video, but Stanford University released this cooking robot, and it's open source. They released it in January. Like, all the code, how to make it, all the tutorials, like, everything on how to make a cooking robot. So my 20 year goal is to, like, build this robot and then make basically it accessible to homes. Because you see, right. Generally, when there are men in tech, they like Elon Musk. He's like, I want a cool car. So that's why cars are made on a large scale. It's like, there's not that many women in tech trying to do robots. And I was like, well, I don't want to make cool guns or mining robots. I want to, like, not Cork. [00:14:56] Speaker C: This is going to be a boom thing. This is boom. [00:15:00] Speaker B: No, I'm applying for the 40k WA innovation grant. There's like 30k women, enterprising, cost 50k for the parts for the robot. So I'll probably. If I get all the grants and my business is going okay and I can afford to step away for a month, December, I'm going ham. I want a prototype. So, yeah, that's where I wanted to go. Yeah. [00:15:20] Speaker C: Yeah. Amazing. Wow. [00:15:22] Speaker B: It is, I reckon, 20 years, you know, surely the robots are like. [00:15:25] Speaker C: Yeah, you can still young girl. [00:15:30] Speaker A: So just before we ask, anya, what can you. We can give you a plug for your. [00:15:36] Speaker B: A plug. [00:15:37] Speaker A: Oh, well, sorry. A promotion for your business. So how do we contact you? How do people. [00:15:41] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry. Rockingham webservices. Contact me at [email protected] or you can call me on 048-177-8399 yeah. [00:15:55] Speaker A: So for those of us who are slow like me, if you could repeat that phone numbering, please. Yeah, the phone number. [00:16:05] Speaker B: Yep. Okay, so the phone number is 0481 and then it's seven, seven, eight and then 399. So there's a couple of doubles in there. So 048-1783 double nine. Yeah. [00:16:21] Speaker A: And if people wanted to email you, because in all due respect, if you give your name, people might misspell it. That's right. [00:16:31] Speaker B: Actually, there is. We do have another email. It's info okinghamwebservices.com, which still goes to my inbox, actually. [00:16:38] Speaker A: But info at Rockingham webservices. All one word. [00:16:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Rockinghamwebservices.com au. Oh, just.com dot. I bought the.com domain instead of the.com dot au because eventually I want to start selling to the US. Yeah. They pay a lot more over there. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Isn't it great? [00:16:58] Speaker C: Wonderful. Wonderful. And there may be some listeners today from the US. [00:17:03] Speaker A: Well, there could be. Yeah, we do. [00:17:06] Speaker C: So Mary might be there listening, my friend Mary. [00:17:13] Speaker A: So, because I find because of the older generation, you know, I remember, you know, one of the funniest things is when they give the kids today an old doll up phone and I don't know what. How you could ring a number on it. [00:17:27] Speaker B: Oh, I remember there was. [00:17:28] Speaker A: That's it. You remember that? [00:17:30] Speaker B: My parents like to be. [00:17:39] Speaker A: So what I was going to say was yet. So I'm a bit old school. I'm trying to get up with technology, et cetera. But it's hard. [00:17:46] Speaker B: It is, it is hard. [00:17:49] Speaker A: And it's all in the news now, so. But how scary is AI? [00:17:58] Speaker B: Okay, so I did AI for my thesis. So I know the maths, I know it very, very well. And I see, like the AI that's coming out right now and I'm like, mmm, it's so unreliable. It's very, very far away from being like, maybe you can speed up people's jobs but you can't replace it. It's got a, what we call hallucinations. So it says things that seem very correct but like, it's not true. So I think if anything, like, not AI taking over people's jobs or anything, not worried about that. But maybe like if AI starts to permeate society a bit more, like, I feel like a bit more education about using it safely because people think that these links that it generates are true links. It's like, no, it's what we call a large language model. So it looks at lots of words and it says, well, the next, most likely next word is this based on statistics and maths? It doesn't know what it's saying. [00:18:55] Speaker A: So why don't you think? Well, you said that it won't be the be all and end all. Why is that? Why is it? [00:19:06] Speaker B: I just think it's too new. It's like immature, unreliable. Maybe in, I don't know, 1020 years time it might get to something, but it's very. And it needs people and, you know. Yeah, I don't, I'm not too worried. Like, I've seen see people, I've had a few, I've had this person on LinkedIn reach out to me. It's like, oh, my God, do you want to try this AI coder? Yeah, maybe we'll help you with your business. Maybe some feedback. And I tried it and I was like, it just give me broken code. I can't use it. This is horrible. Like, it's good for getting brainstorming of, like, oh, maybe the code should look like this, but very far away from being even close to being right to be able to place my job, I reckon. [00:19:45] Speaker C: There you go. It just doesn't have that power of the human mind that human mind can come up with. [00:19:52] Speaker B: I think it's so funny when they think it's going to replace coders because coding is basically you talking to a computer and then you and maybe some other coders and developers with you also need to read what you've said to the computer. And it's like, that needs to make sense to everyone. So like there has to be communication within the developers, each other. So the AI can't just come up with something because otherwise, like everyone, you know, it's like a team. I don't know, it's hard to explain. I'm going, I'm going be too technical into it. But yeah. [00:20:26] Speaker A: With AI I can understand like, you know, please, if I'm saying or asking wrong questions, let me know. So, you know when you go on to a like Commonwealth bank and they have the robot answering your questions, you know. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:40] Speaker A: And I just find it basically useless. [00:20:42] Speaker B: You know, it's so, yeah, so unreliable. [00:20:44] Speaker C: It's so frustrating. [00:20:45] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. That's a word. [00:20:47] Speaker C: Frustrating, frustrating. Yeah. [00:20:48] Speaker A: And I, what about, that's one side of which I think is just not quite there. And you would think people at the Commonwealth bank would be at the top. [00:20:58] Speaker B: Of the, you know, banks are like the lowest. So within software developers, jobs that we consider good for developer. So if we say you worked at a bank, you're like, you're pretty low there, you're not on the tier of like seriously level software developers and then defense is right at the bottom. You are like defence and government. If you're working there as a developer, you are considered like the least skilled kind of thing. [00:21:24] Speaker C: I would have thought defence would be higher. [00:21:26] Speaker B: No, no. [00:21:27] Speaker C: Security. [00:21:28] Speaker B: The best developers work at Google, Atlassian, canva, tech companies. The government doesn't know how to bring out the best in engineers and so all the good ones leave is what I think. [00:21:41] Speaker C: Fascinating. I'm just learning so much. [00:21:45] Speaker B: Companies developers want to work at and the people who are unmotivated or not that they're unmotivated, maybe, maybe work isn't their life, they just want to live out, look after their family, they want to do other things. They don't want to be a top tier coder, they're working for the government or like defense. And then banks is like they, you know, they, like, I think I'd say banks are still, you gotta have a level of communication and things and like I'd say it's a bit higher on the scale. And then tech companies is like top tier and startup is like if and oh, and coders that work for startups, they don't get paid the most, but like they are the most, like they can wear the most hats. Not only can they communicate, they can code, they can do like everything that needs to go around coding infrastructure. Like in terms of the company, like it's tears, it's amazing, isn't it? [00:22:39] Speaker A: Like speaking here with Tuya, who's a layperson like myself and also old school, you would think that the banks, my thing said, oh, who do you think's ahead in sort of, that sort of thing? I would say, oh, surely the banks, insurance companies, government. And you're saying not at all on. [00:22:58] Speaker B: YouTube and canva, of course, yeah, because they're, they're willing to pay for cat. I've seen salaries advertised in the US. You're looking, you know, like 200, 300 year, because that's how much they value developers. Whereas if you work for the government, you're like eighty k a year. Like, they don't value like, you know, I mean, I was offered this. What was it? Oh, so I was a data modeler and some of this recruiter reached out and was like, hey, do you want to work for the government at this like, director level position data model? I was like, the fuck? I'm like six months experience. Why would you ask me? She's like, yeah, it's like $100 an hour. And then, and then she called me back. It's like, no, actually they can't do $100 an hour. Maybe like, can you go a bit cheaper? And it's like, don't think I want to go lower than 90 now because it seems like a lot of effort. But like, I don't know, you just look at that. They're wanting this director level person and it's like they can't find him because they're not willing to offer. They have to find 24 year old people like me who, you know. [00:23:59] Speaker A: Isn'T it amazing to you how much we learn just from speaking to Ellie? And we really haven't plugged your business that much because we've been asking so much. [00:24:11] Speaker B: I find. I don't know. For me, I've just found direct calling people directly to be the most effective. But I like to chat and it's good. I'd like to have fun. [00:24:21] Speaker A: So how. I mean, just going on this AI thing, one of the things I can sort of half understand the answers to the questions when you go onto a bank website. I can half. How do they, how can AI judge emotions? So Tuya's emotions and my emotions about a subject can be completely different. So how would AI get around that? [00:24:46] Speaker B: They call it sentiment analysis. So it's like, how does this person feel? Is it positive or is it negative? And I remember looking at it for a bit and then I, like, I forgot. But my understanding was they, no, no, I've forgotten. I could come up with some things of maybe what it was. But they. They have. They basically place numbers on words, and then they look at stats and they're like, how often did this word come up? And really, they call it vector embedded, something. I can't really remember, but they. It's like. It's like little graphs. So when they're trying to figure it out, the math, the computer's doing little. Little graphs on statistics and likelihood to try and figure out the sentiment. Yeah. [00:25:29] Speaker C: Is that like algorithms? [00:25:31] Speaker B: Yes, algorithms. [00:25:32] Speaker A: Oh, look out. [00:25:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got it. You got it. [00:25:36] Speaker C: I was either right or totally wrong. [00:25:38] Speaker A: No. Well done. Well done, you. [00:25:41] Speaker C: I know something. [00:25:42] Speaker B: You know some tech words. [00:25:44] Speaker A: I've got a personal question here. [00:25:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:47] Speaker A: It just came to a head. Do you know what your iq is? [00:25:51] Speaker B: No, I never, never looked it up. I used to think I was really dumb. Like, I'd, like, hang out with all these really smart people, and I'm like, oh, I'm so dumb. I need to work harder. So I stay really late at the library. I remember one time for an AI assignment, I think I stayed there 48 hours straight trying to get it done. [00:26:07] Speaker C: She was all nighter on steroids. Yeah. [00:26:09] Speaker B: And then I just put that it takes like, 30 minutes every time I trained the AI algorithm, because it processes. So I put it on, I go sleep on the couch for a bit, and I come back, keep working on it. I don't know what my IQ is. No. I don't know. I don't even know what good IQ is considered. [00:26:24] Speaker A: Geez. But you must. Would you say to you just speaking to Ellie, like she's just naturally clever, would you? [00:26:31] Speaker C: Sounds like it, yeah. And there's different types of intelligence, isn't there? [00:26:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:35] Speaker C: And so we're thinking of intellectual ideas, in my opinion, Allie also has other types of intelligences, just emotional intelligence and other things which I can't even think of. There was a psychologist, Gardner, I think, who listed nine or eleven different domains of intelligences, you know, there's kinesthetic, visuospatial, those kind of things. And going back to education, we're talking. Sorry, I'm digressing here. We'll get back on track in a minute. We're talking about education. And one of the things with the education system here, it really still only focuses on that intelligence, IQ. Whereas, you know, people need to be recognized for other types of intelligence as people who are good at networking or relationship building, community building, artistic intelligence. I mean, I can't even draw a stick, man. And you look at the things that people can create. Back to Rockingham web design. [00:27:37] Speaker B: I completely agree. To me, emotional intelligence is so important. And sometimes I've been. I've been thinking about, you know, what are the values that I think are really important for my company? And I've thought about it a lot. Empathy is like one of them. Honesty and innovation, because I think. I think one thing I've noticed with women is like, I'll be like, hey, can you do this? And they'll just be like, yes. It's like, no, if you are busy or you are struggling at the moment, don't say yes. Tell me what's going on and I'll just cover it. And I've had that conversation a few times. I think my developer had to go to a funeral last week, so I was like, don't worry, I'm going to drop everything that I was doing and I'm gonna take over your job and, like, don't worry about it. Like, brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I think empathy is really important. Listening. [00:28:20] Speaker C: Hearing someone listening to where they're at, what they need, what's going on for them, and that connection and. Yeah. [00:28:28] Speaker A: Wow. It's amazing, isn't it? You know, it really is. And for older people, like, I'm oldest by a long way here, everybody. But I. Ian, I spoke. [00:28:40] Speaker B: How are you, by the way? [00:28:43] Speaker C: No comment. [00:28:47] Speaker A: My age? Yeah, I'm 60, 67. [00:28:51] Speaker B: But you're six years older than my dad. [00:28:59] Speaker A: Now. That's it. You talked about depression before. That is. Thank you. But it's. It's absolutely, you know, you can. I've done about yourself to you, but I walk out. You're a lot younger than me as. [00:29:17] Speaker C: Well, but you're not quite old enough to be my dad. But I can walk away. [00:29:26] Speaker A: And I walk away after today. And it's such a good feeling because I'm seeing people like yourself who already are young, have such a great outlook, and, you know, like they say. And the worst thing is we. I think as a society, we just get saturated with what I call crap news, you know, whether, whether it be about this person, that person, that blah, blah. And very few good stories come out about the youth. And this is a great example of what should be the news, rather than, oh, it's the me generation, you know, I've got a photo with blah, blah, blah, you know, social media. And I think, no, I mean, there are some people like that. There's some people, my generation who were painting the backside, too. [00:30:15] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. [00:30:16] Speaker A: So to have this, you know, this is what should be out there. It really should. [00:30:22] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. There is the news. There's too much focus on all the negative. [00:30:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:27] Speaker C: And maybe I'm biased because Allie's the same age as my daughter. I see this generation and they're fabulous. They are switched on, and they know how to sort of have a better work life balance and be more healthy and just amazing. Just so inspiring. So that does give me hope for this new generation that will, you know, help us move forward. [00:30:53] Speaker A: I couldn't agree more. I mean, you said a word there about your business, and again, if there's one thing that is not publicized these days about the younger generation, it's empathy. I don't care anymore. They don't care about old people. I don't care about this. And the first thing you use about your business is empathy. [00:31:11] Speaker B: Yeah. It's so, so important. And I kind of feel for the older generation because I think working with people, like, I guess my age, there is, like, lots of little subtle things that I do to make it. To make. To bring out the best in people. And I feel like they just don't know. Like, I'm trying to think of an example. [00:31:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:36] Speaker B: Okay. For example, I had a work experience kid. She came for, like, two weeks. And then I said to her, firstly, I was like, I don't have time to look after her. So I got a uni student and I paid her to look after her. And I said, make me 20 video ads over these two weeks. And the thing that I think was really important that I said was, it can be crap. It can be horrible taking that pressure off and then make the 20 videos and maybe by the 20th one, it will look. Maybe you'll get a bit better at it, but it's like, small things like that. Just like an older person would never say to a younger person, it can be bad. Just like, yeah, I don't know. There's lots of, there's lots of nuances that I think to communicate to get the best, because I've seen some of my friends, and in the right situations, they go hard. They work, like, a lot, like twelve hour days, like on the weekends, like they're willing to put in the work, but they need that, I guess. What is it? Like, validation? [00:32:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:36] Speaker B: And it comes, it comes in, like, small, like, remarks and how you say it, like. And it's. Yeah, and I don't think the older generation is, like, used to that. So they don't know. Like, they. They're there with all these other people that don't say that to them. So why? [00:32:51] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:32:52] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:32:53] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Encouragement. It reminds me of something a friend once said. If something's worth doing, it's worth doing badly. In other words, just have a go. Just do it. [00:33:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:04] Speaker C: Don't just say, I can't or it's too hard. [00:33:07] Speaker A: It's a really good. [00:33:09] Speaker B: No, I agree. That's a good one. [00:33:10] Speaker C: And learning, you know, learning. Sometimes, I know I have the idea that I've got to be good at something straight away or I don't want to make mistakes. [00:33:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:19] Speaker C: This is so important for me as a person, to be a beginner at something, to be a learner and actually enjoy that time. And of making a mistake and going, well, this is part of learning. I've made a mistake. But like you say, there's someone nearby that says, yep, that's all good. At least you're trying. You're having a go. You made a mistake. Now you know what not to do. Rather than someone getting down your throat about making a mistake or telling you off. [00:33:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Like, I. Yeah. I mean, look, I won't get me wrong. Like, working with older people, I've definitely found easier because I can just be like, you know, it is. It does get tiring saying all these little things and. And kind of having to be really empathetic, but, like, it is. I don't know, there's pros and cons, but also the younger people will come up with different ideas. Like, some of these videos they come up with, I was like, what the. They had this one where they're like, hey, Ali, just hold this cup. And then we're just gonna throw something at you and just put it on yourself and say, ah, we're Rockingham Web services. We make refreshing websites. Like, I was like, I wouldn't have thought of that. So if anything, I'd say ideas from the younger and then I. Execution from the older has been, like, a good balance for me. [00:34:34] Speaker A: Fascinating, isn't it? [00:34:35] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. The synergy of the older and younger generation. [00:34:39] Speaker A: And the thing is to, you know, like, you're not all young people, you know? You know, you say you include older people. [00:34:46] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Who do I work with on a daily basis? So I have this one, like, I'm trying to get, like, I have the. Yeah. So marketing person's like, I think she's like, 18. And then there's another one who's like, my age. And then there's this other lady who's like, I think, ten years older than me. And then there's this guy who's been helping us, and he's probably around your age, actually. [00:35:07] Speaker A: Yeah, just. Just before the grave. [00:35:13] Speaker B: But it's such a diverse range. And as much as I like, okay, I am biased towards women. Like, I definitely want to hire women, but I'm like, you know, if I come across a guy, good vibes, seems intelligent, both emotionally and, like, mentally, you know, I'm not opposed to hiring guys if they pass the vibe check, but it's. It's a high standard vibe check. [00:35:38] Speaker C: Well, that's it, isn't it? [00:35:41] Speaker A: And that's one of the things, again, we're going back to old school. Is that old school when you interview somebody for a job? And I always remember one of my jobs that I got, and the bloke said to me, I don't worry about training you, because that'll be fine. It's if you fit in with the team, and if I get a good feeling about you. [00:36:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:03] Speaker A: And I thought, that's an important point. You know, it's no good having all the qualifications and no people skills or not fitting in. [00:36:10] Speaker B: Communication, to me, is so important. Like, it's like, you can be crap. You can make all the mistakes you want as long as you just, like, let us know what's going on. It's like, I can at least have something to go off when I'm trying to be empathetic. But if it's, like, I have to guess what you're thinking, it's like, oh, absolutely. Nobody's a mind reader as much as I wish I was. That'd be helpful. [00:36:32] Speaker A: It's been absolutely fascinating. Before you go, because let's get. Do you have any senior. Did you have any interests outside of your work? [00:36:42] Speaker B: Interest outside of my work? [00:36:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:44] Speaker B: There's catch music in Frio. [00:36:46] Speaker A: Who? [00:36:46] Speaker B: Sorry, catch music. They do mental health music because I do have, you know, little PTSD. So I find music really helpful for mindfulness. I go there, Navy club, what, 07:00 p.m. and then I also do, like, so music I found really good for mental health. And in terms of, like, exercise, I, like, have YouTube videos, and I just did little dances. So work for an hour, put on, like, a five minute song, do a little dance. This is a guy called the Fitness Marshall. So it's like I've started getting carpal tunnel because I'm coding too much. So I'm like, yeah. [00:37:17] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:37:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Those are my other hobbies, probably. Yeah. [00:37:21] Speaker A: Any questions you'd like to ask Ali before we sign off to you? [00:37:26] Speaker C: Probably hundreds, but just. It was just awesome meeting you, Ally. I hope I can catch up with you. [00:37:34] Speaker A: I'd love you to come back in. [00:37:36] Speaker B: You guys are really lovely. You know, when I see volunteers, I always think, damn. Volunteers are always the nicest people. [00:37:44] Speaker A: I noticed she didn't. Trouble was, she didn't look at me when she said that. [00:37:55] Speaker C: She gave us both. [00:38:01] Speaker A: It was really, really great having you in Ali and in Austin. I really would love you to come in again. I might. If I can contact you through your website and maybe just take my phone number. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know what it's like these days. But no, you know, maybe, I don't know, a month or two months, whatever suitable for you to come in and have another chat about what you do and how it's all going out because it's such an interesting subject. It's got me really, you know? [00:38:41] Speaker C: Absolutely. Absolutely. And maybe if things pan out, I may have my own show here on Tuesday nights from 06:00 p.m. to 09:00 p.m. hell, yeah. [00:38:49] Speaker B: Get a girls eyeball. [00:38:52] Speaker C: So we could maybe chat about your mental health journey, recovery. Because that's my two passions in life, you know, recovery and music and things. So who knows? That may happen. So, yeah. [00:39:06] Speaker A: Thanks very much again, Ali. It's been great. And what a lovely segue, seeing that. What a lovely segue to this song, seeing that we have both Ali and also Tuya in the studio. [00:39:17] Speaker B: Let's go.